Curse

James Pontikka · Feb 04, 2011, 07:33 PM // 19:33

If you dont like SF dont use it and do balancedway when i look at this thread i think that some people that want SF to be nerfed want just to get more money on ectos and high end items. I wonder what would happen if SF would get nerfed. Think of obby armor for example how do you expect to get it if ectos would be almost 10k. How long u think it would take to get all 120 ectos and shards with balanced way groups? And btw u can never play a game wrong they made all the skills so we can use them to make the game fun and i like tanking with sf

*lemming* · Feb 04, 2011, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Pontikka

Think of obby armor for example how do you expect to get it if ectos would be almost 10k. How long u think it would take to get all 120 ectos and shards with balanced way groups?

Just in case you didn't realize, FoW armor was actually something special back when that was the case.

vitorvdp_68 · Feb 04, 2011, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Just in case you didn't realize, FoW armor was actually something special back when that was the case.

Wait, doesn't that mean we should love invincibuilds? I mean, Obby armor looks atrocious in general.

Cuilan · Feb 04, 2011, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Pontikka

How long u think it would take to get all 120 ectos and shards with balanced way groups? And btw u can never play a game wrong they made all the skills so we can use them to make the game fun

1. I've seen some players who can get quite a few without speed clearing, so I'd say you can get them just fine.
2. If skills exist for a reason than we might as well not have any skill updates. That argument doesn't work.

Gabriel of Ravn · Feb 04, 2011, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

Ok, that and chest running, but if they nerfed SF, chest running would get a shitton harder all of a sudden too

Chest running isn't hard at all without SF I've done a couple thousand that isn't boreal station without it so kind of an invalid argument for keeping SF the way it is.

vitorvdp_68 · Feb 05, 2011, 06:14 AM // 06:14

Using a skill in the game is now called abusing it? Abusing would be cloning items when duping was around, this is just.. well you know.. using a skill maybe?
You people have to stop acting all high and mighty. It's you that bring this old topic up over and over again, like a little kid asking his mom "Now? What about now? Please, now!"

Jeydra · Feb 05, 2011, 06:57 AM // 06:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Pontikka

If you dont like SF dont use it and do balancedway when i look at this thread i think that some people that want SF to be nerfed want just to get more money on ectos and high end items. I wonder what would happen if SF would get nerfed. Think of obby armor for example how do you expect to get it if ectos would be almost 10k. How long u think it would take to get all 120 ectos and shards with balanced way groups? And btw u can never play a game wrong they made all the skills so we can use them to make the game fun and i like tanking with sf

Maybe ANet should let players use the skill "Base Defense", and all those who hate using it can simply don't use it and do balancedway ... it would make ectos worth like 100g each and everyone who wants obby armour can have it, too.

It goes without saying that Shadow Form is completely and horribly overpowered and should be nerfed. Some people just don't get it

vitorvdp_68 · Feb 05, 2011, 07:03 AM // 07:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

ectos worth like 100g each

So you are saying that if ecto price is high, then the economy is doing just fine? Well, then that just proves the point that we don't need a nerf. Ecto has been mostly between 8 - 9k each for past few weeks. Maybe none of us get it, both SF users and haters, and maybe we should all just shut up?

Jeydra · Feb 05, 2011, 07:06 AM // 07:06

I didn't say that. I said that if Ectos are worth like 100g each then everyone who wants obsidian armour can have it. I don't see how you arrived at the rest of your post.

vitorvdp_68 · Feb 05, 2011, 07:10 AM // 07:10

Well, it seems you are criticising how SF supposedly brings ecto prices down. If not, then I don't know what you are talking about.

Jeydra · Feb 05, 2011, 07:16 AM // 07:16

Ignore the second part then:

Maybe ANet should let players use the skill "Base Defense", which makes Shadow Form and all other invincibuilds unnecessary. All those who hate using the skill "Base Defense" can simply don't use it and run balancedway. Something wrong with this idea?

Or do you support it?

Oh, and while ANet is at it, they could give us the skill "The Mad King's Influence" and ... I don't know ... a 100% increased movespeed stance that can be kept up indefinitely, as well as a skill that triples all drops by foes killed.

Heck while ANet is at it, they could give us a NPC that gives you any item you want. Wouldn't that be good? After all, all those who prefer not to "abuse" skills / NPCs already in the game can simply not talk to that NPC!

Phoenix Ex · Feb 05, 2011, 07:16 AM // 07:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

Vanquishing in HM with H/h:
~30 minutes per run, no failure, no people lagging out
Easy as ****
~1.5K Reward guaranteed

Doing UW in HM with pugs, using "balanced" build:
~3 hours per run (Including group formation time, washroom breaks, explanation time, etc.), tons of failures, people lag out and ruin runs.
At least 4 times as difficult compared to vanquishing

Theoretical reward of UW HM, pugs, "balanced" build:
1.5k x 6 times as long (compared to vanquishing) x 4 times as hard + 4k bonus for tolerating random drop outs = 40k

Real reward of UW HM, pugs, "balanced" build:
An average of 2 ectos per run + junk = not even 20k, especially taking into account the higher failure rate. The rare chest items that most people never get doesn't come close to making up the difference.

EoTN dungeons are even worse when it comes to reward/risk ratio. Fix this and they can nerf all the "invincible" build they want.

QFT. To me its not that SF is overpowered, its that everyone finally discovered that balancedway is underpowered with the current outdated loot structure.

vitorvdp_68 · Feb 05, 2011, 07:18 AM // 07:18

So basically you said SF is overpowered, but you suggest they put a skill even more overpowered? Why not just leave it at SF, which is middle ground?

Edit: also, the post above mine is exactly my view on this - "QFT. To me its not that SF is overpowered, its that everyone finally discovered that balancedway is underpowered compared to the loot structure the game was set up."

SoOsc takes about 15 mins to do with most teams, and the chance of getting a BDS is tiny. The prices of BDS are still at around 100e for.. let's say, a q10 Heal?
I think that's a good price for one of the rare skins to be, because it's not so cheap that everyone can afford it, and not overly expensive that only the leet players can get it.

Jeydra · Feb 05, 2011, 07:21 AM // 07:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by vitorvdp_68

So basically you said SF is overpowered, but you suggest they put a skill even more overpowered? Why not just leave it at SF, which is middle ground?

I'm saying that given the current arguments for Shadow Form not being overpowered, you could make a "compelling" case to include even more overpowered skills like Base Defense.

That's showing you how shallow the current arguments for keeping Shadow Form are. No, Shadow Form is not middle ground. It's overpowered.

vitorvdp_68 · Feb 05, 2011, 07:23 AM // 07:23

If it's so overpowered, then why do so many Pugs of speedclears that use SF fail? It's not a matter of just "use SF, be invincible". You have to know how to use all the others skills properly and learn your role.

Jeydra · Feb 05, 2011, 07:24 AM // 07:24

Are you proposing we balance for bad players instead of good players, and that we should pull the people who decide on game balance from RA instead of the mAT winners?

vitorvdp_68 · Feb 05, 2011, 07:28 AM // 07:28

You have to make it balanced for the majority, not doing so would be incredibly elitist.
Since a good chunk of people I see everyday during Pugs clearly don't cope too well with Terra builds, I'm just saying it's probably better to leave it how it is now. Well, that is all I have to say, no more from me.

Edit: why should mAT winners have the right to choose skill balances? That's so overly elitist it's not funny, specially since SF affects them very little.

Jeydra · Feb 05, 2011, 07:34 AM // 07:34

I think if DShot interrupts a 3/4s cast spell from outside of aggro bubble range, it should instantly kill the target.

A good chunk of Rangers I see everyday are unable to interrupt 1s spells even from point-blank range, so the majority of players won't be able to do this. Since we should balance for the majority (not doing so would be incredibly elitist) most players won't be affected and the skill remains balanced.

Ridiculous. As always, the arguments for keeping Shadow Form the way it is are extremely shallow.

Phoenix Ex · Feb 05, 2011, 07:36 AM // 07:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Are you proposing we balance for bad players instead of good players, and that we should pull the people who decide on game balance from RA instead of the mAT winners?

Guild Wars players are amongst the best in role-playing games skill level. I've never met a pure RPG player coming into GW that find the game easy. I find the concept of balance in GW PvE ridiculously arbitrary, because there's nothing to actually compare it to.

I could easily compare GW PvE to Diablo 2 and suddenly the game is way too difficult and need to be adjusted easier. Other people compare it to Starcraft and its now too easy.

The best way? Balance it according to the skill levels of the majority of players that are attracted to your games.

vitorvdp_68 · Feb 05, 2011, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

I think if DShot interrupts a 3/4s cast spell from outside of aggro bubble range, it should instantly kill the target.

A good chunk of Rangers I see everyday are unable to interrupt 1s spells even from point-blank range, so the majority of players won't be able to do this. Since we should balance for the majority (not doing so would be incredibly elitist) most players won't be affected and the skill remains balanced.

Ridiculous. As always, the arguments for keeping Shadow Form the way it is are extremely shallow.

I don't see how it's shallow? This game has millions of people that play it, Anet wants to keep the majority happy. It's as easy as that. Also, ranger interrupts are terrible compared to mesmer interrupts, so maybe they do need to change that?

Edit: to the poster above me, that's exactly how it works. If SF hasn't been nerfed, it's because Anet knows it will do more harm than good to the player base.